An Interview on Black Lives Matter Movement with Caribbean multimedia artist Avantia Damberg
By Ilayda Edali, Maura Purnama
“I want the people of Curacao to recognize themselves in my art. I want to show them that they are art.”
Avantia Damberg is a Caribbean artist known for her multi-disciplinary artwork such as wall art, sculpture, land art, and paintings. She is from Curacao, but she completed her studies in the Netherlands.
After working several jobs in the cultural sector for 5 years in Amsterdam, she moved back to Curacao, where she has been based for the past 7 years. At the moment, she is making collages by using objects she has collected over the years in Curacao. She uses hexagon shapes (a six-sided polygon) for her art, as she feels it is the best way to show her work in a capsule.
She feels strongly connected to her island and wants to give back to her community with her art. In one of her projects, she builds a map of Curacao in a way to represent her people.
“In 1863 when slavery was abolished, the enslaved people had no last names. They were given the option to create a last name that had not existed, so people got really creative. People settled around the areas they used to be enslaved, and I placed their names in those areas. It’s not only people of African descent but there are also names of Jewish people from Spain and Portugal. Also from Syria, Pakistan, India, and more.“
After a successful discussion held at Webster Leiden last week, we wanted to ask Avantia about her experience living as a black person in the Netherlands, as well as her perspective on the Black Lives Matter movement.
Q: How were your experiences studying and working abroad?
AD: I was born in the Netherlands and I went to Curacao when I was 7. When I was 19, I came back for my studies. I did marketing economics first, then switched to art. Living in the Netherlands was not a big culture shock for me, although there were some situations. Both in Eindhoven and in Amsterdam, I had mostly international friends. It is easy to meet people from different backgrounds in the Netherlands, as it is very diverse.
“Throughout the year everything would be fine, but during Sinterklaas people would suddenly start calling me Zwarte Piet (Black Pete).”
Q: Have you experienced racism in the Netherlands or in Europe?
AD: I experienced it when I was a child in the north of Holland, where I was born. It was mostly around the Sinterklaas season. Throughout the year everything would be fine, but during this holiday people would suddenly start calling me Zwarte Piet (Black Piet). They were mean and belittling. I didn’t understand it especially because the whole year we would play together, everything was fine. It was only during this time, their attitude would change. My mom would tell me that I would come home crying almost every day until Sinterklaas was over. I don’t really remember these, I know it from my moms’ stories. My association with Sinterklaas was fine because my parents always made sure to tell me that it did not exist - it was just a guy dressed up as Sinterklaas. I was so adamant that he did not really exist, and my parents were the ones who bought me those gifts. I could see that his beard was velcro, I knew he was my neighbor. But the Sinterklaas was always sweet, out of everybody, he would always pick me to sit on his lap. Positive discrimination. That was my experience with racism during my childhood.
“You don’t bow your back for people to walk on it.”
When I came back to the Netherlands again for university, I noticed that if I were to speak English instead of Dutch at a store, I got treated better. So I used to switch to English and they would totally change their attitude. Suddenly they would give me really good service. I always had to do a lot to get good treatment. You have to start with a smile and be all bubbly and happy for people to be nice to you. But I can’t say that it has anything to do with my color, I feel like it’s just the people of Amsterdam. They are grumpy. There is discrimination, but I did not sense it a lot because I did not look for it. As they say in Curacao “ you don’t bow your back for people to walk on it”. In some sense did not leave an open door for people to be racist but in a very subtle way, there was still racism.
Q: What do you think of Zwarte Piet? How do you feel about it still being around?
AD: I think that the Dutch want to hold on to this tradition as it is part of their culture. They think of it as a memory from their childhood. But they don’t want to be told that it’s wrong by someone else. But we know that black Piet is not a guy who fell into a chimney and got a few smudges on his face. It really is a black person. Now it is the year 2020, the thought of “black people are servants” is offensive and racist. The relationship between the white person as the saint, and the black person as the servant is a structure. That’s why black people are saying enough is enough. We don’t accept this.
Q: What do you think about the Black Lives Matter movement? Why do you think the death of George Floyd really amplifies this movement?
AD: It’s a combination of the event happening during the lockdown. It had such a big explosion because people are confined, and surrounded by a lot of crises, we tend to lash out in a nasty way. The situation that had happened to George Floyd has been happening for years. The system that people are tired of is still in effect. It has been sown into society since the abolition of slavery, that basically, black people can’t develop economically in the same way as their white counterparts. Structurally they are kept down. The system treated African-Americans as second-class citizens, so to speak. Now it’s time for white people to join the movement, they are the ones that should say “We don’t accept this anymore.” They have to think about whether they want to live in a world of inequality and act.
“It’s going to be violent, sometimes that’s the only way for things to change.”
Q: Do you think violence is effective in making a change?
AD: A revolution has to happen for change to take place, and that revolution is not going to be nice. It’s going to be violent, and sometimes that’s the only way for things to change. Of course, I hope for another way, but we waited for so long and it has not been happening.
Q: What made you decide to exhibit your work mainly in Curacao and in the Caribbean region?
AD: I stayed in the Netherlands mainly to study. It was a privilege to study in Europe because it expanded my perspective, and opened my eyes to the potential of my own country. Eventually, I wanted to return to Curacao and contribute to the nation-building my way, with my art. I want the people of Curacao to reflect and recognize themselves in my art. I want to show them that they are art.
Q: What changes have you observed once you moved from the Netherlands back to Curacao?
AD: I noticed that there are a lot of new people who have good initiatives for Curacao. They start their businesses and work together. I also now run into my kind of people, people I relate to.
Q: Can you tell us more about your map project?
AD: Since 1863 when slavery was abolished, the slaves had no last name. They were given the option to create a last name that had not existed, so people got creative. They settled around the areas they used to be slaves in, which is where I placed their names on the map of Curacao. It’s not only people of African descent, but there are also names of Jewish people from Spain and Portugal, from Syria, Pakistan, India, and more.
Map of Curacao III installation by Avantia Damberg.
“The link to racism is financial or economical power. “
Q: Do you witness less racial injustice in Curacao?
AD: There was internal racism here, people discriminate against themselves. During my childhood when I walked into a shop, they would follow me and keep a close eye on me. When I wanted to be treated well on the phone for service, I had to use Dutch. If I were to speak Papiamento they would be unfriendly. But that completely turned around. However, the link to racism still is financial or economic power. This type of racism still structurally takes place through fundamental education: the elementary schools that are focused on delivering higher educational students, discriminate against the Afro-Curacaoan children, based on which neighborhood they come from. In this way, the majority is dumbed down, as the schools don’t strive for top education. We are now literally experiencing the effects of this racist economic structure, which didn’t survive the COVID19 blow.